QRZ! Ham Radio 4/QRZ Ham Radio Callsign Database - Volume 4.iso/digests/tcp/940126.txt

Internet Message Format | 1994-11-13 | 13KB

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 04:30:02 PDT
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <[e-mail]>
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Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #126
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TCP-Group Digest            Wed, 22 Jun 94       Volume 94 : Issue  126

Today's Topics:
                           IP-TNC (3 msgs)
                        IP-TNC, the beginings?
             Looking for TCP/IP software for packet radio
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Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 12:11:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)
Subject: IP-TNC
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] writes:
> I have been thinking about an IP-TNC for a while [TNC-2 CPU].

I would get in touch with the people designing the X-1 and X-2 TNC code.
Basically what you want is what they have already designed.  In your case
you would just need to delete the Net/Rom code and modify the KISS to SLIP.

[e-mail] writes:
> So why not just use a low power PC design. Its cheap and the parts are
> easy to get. There is a real danger of getting too carried away here.

The TNC-2 and its CPU is well suited for most of what we do in ham radio.
I've been meesing with the DRSI model (DPK-2) and it has a nice PC Pattern
for a set of stand-off jumpers which can be used to by-pass the CPU chip.
What you might envision is a higher class CPU daughter board which plugs
in to this header.  The onboard circuitry implements RS-232, and synchronous
I/O to a modem chip, or bypassed to a connector.  I've been running my TNC
at 19.2 k baud across the house to see how well it does, and find it able to
keep up quite nicely.  The problem is programming tools.  I have a nice C
compiler from HI-Tech (public domain) for the CPU, some software examples for
using the TNC-2 hardware design, and some ideas about what I would like the
code to do.  The more I get into it, the more hardware I wish the TNC had.
For example, it would be nice to have a clock to generate interrupts every
10 ms (multi-task), and a larger address space.  Once you move to C as the
programming language you have to factor in some overhead.  I notice the X-1
has gone to bank-switching to perform it's tasks.  The solution as I see it
is probably either a new board design, or a daughter-board which replaces the
Z-80 with a newer Z-180 or even the newer Zilog stuff which contains a timer
and SIO on the same die.  The new board design should be based on the 486-SLC
chip.  This chip is about 1 inch square and (as far as I've been able to test
here) compatible with the 486 (sans Co-Processor). There are many tools for
the Intel CPU design and many are used in other interests (Borland C++), and
can be easily combined to create the ROM code.  Combine this with a RJ-45 or
a BNC connector and you're ready for Ethernet.

Someone mentioned that the Ethernet wouldn't be good for their Handie Talkie.
I'd like to point out that anyone using a talkie (presumably with a mag-mount
on their refridgerator) with packet radio is a 1200 baud user and should not
concern themselves with advanced networking!  They're strictly the user base
on the low speed dump channel (if there is one).

As far as AX.25 is concerned, I agree that it shouldn't be transported any
further than the TNC.  One side should be IP, the other AX.25 encapsulated
IP.  If you feel lonesome, than maybe a work-around would be to telnet to
port XXXX on the TNC and get an AX.25 dump server.  Ethernet would be good
for this also, as it has the speed to not choke on the dump data.

--
Steve

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Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 09:15:56 +0200 (BST)
From: [e-mail] (Alan Cox)
Subject: IP-TNC
To: [e-mail] (Steve Sampson)

> code to do.  The more I get into it, the more hardware I wish the TNC had.
> For example, it would be nice to have a clock to generate interrupts every
> 10 ms (multi-task), and a larger address space.  Once you move to C as the

Again why task switch like this. You can do co-operative multitasking faster
than pre-emptive, and it doesn't need timers nor does it introduce as many
race conditions and problems. If KA9Q can run multi-tasking this way Im sure
a more simple program like a TNC can be adequately dealt with.

> programming language you have to factor in some overhead.  I notice the X-1

Its also worth noting the Z80 is a very bad CPU for C language programming as
it lacks as decent way to work with offsets of SP.
>
> As far as AX.25 is concerned, I agree that it shouldn't be transported any
> further than the TNC.  One side should be IP, the other AX.25 encapsulated

Having AX.25 outside of the TNC is a good thing. Or at least the ability to
do so. Having SLIP support will be handy for a few people.. but most DOS/
Windows TCP/IP stacks can't cope properly with amateur radio, and most unix
ones are not totally happy. AX.25 outside of the TNC gives you flexibility
to do clever things in the connected machine. For many users its not however
appropriate. I guess SLIP/KISS/KISS+filter switchable would be neat.

It's important to think about things in the right order. My order would have to
be

1) Easy connection (a nice standard data radio jack)
2) Price - better to use stuff like the 68HC11, embedded 68K or x86 chips than
spend money on support chips. The modern embedded controllers can do amazing things
3) Support for SLIP type stuff.
4) Better configuration facilities than the current TNC's


Alan

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Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 3:23:12 PDT
From: Bill Healy <[e-mail]>
Subject: IP-TNC
To: [e-mail] (tcp-group)

>  The solution as I see it
> is probably either a new board design, or a daughter-board which replaces the
> Z-80 with a newer Z-180 or even the newer Zilog stuff which contains a timer
> and SIO on the same die.  The new board design should be based on the 486-SLC
> chip.  This chip is about 1 inch square and (as far as I've been able to test
> here) compatible with the 486 (sans Co-Processor).

You're not going to be using SLCs unless you get IBM to build the boards
for you. IBM makes the SLC chips and according to their license with INTEL
the chip has to be attached to something that IBM has made. That's why all
SLC motherboards are being made by IBM in the North Carolina plant. The
boards are designed and sold by other companys but IBM builds the boards
and attaches the CPU.

Bill N8KHN

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Date: Tue, 21 Jun 1994 18:04:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Paul L Taylor <[e-mail]>
Subject: IP-TNC, the beginings?
To: [e-mail]

In-reply-to: <[e-mail]> from "DJ Gregor" at Jun
 20, 94 02:53:01 pm

>The type of IP-TNC (or PPP-TNC) that I would like to make right now is a EPROM
>that goes into your standard TAPR-2 clone.  Most people that are running KISS
>are running on a TAPR-2 clone, and that is what I would like to have something
>better for *right now*.  (oh, I wouldn't consider anything like what Barry
>suggested a Terminal Node Conroller, something like that should be called a
>packet switch.)
You are aware that a TNC-2 based router developed out of 'THE NET' as used by
NETROM, by David Roberts g8kbb@gb7mxm that has been in use as the NET-X1G
through to NET-X1J since 1991.It can be used for a static IP router and has
been in use on one of my local hub 70cms port since that time.It has only
stopped operating twice in that time both due to psu failures.In this particular
hub NETROM is totally disabled and ax25 is only used to program any changes to
links.You can stack the X1-J's and currently it supports a hardware mod to
attempt to resolve the deviation of the heard signal which is very useful for
raw beginners to the packet mode.
David is currently working on an extension to this hardware mod to identify
alligator stations and drop them from the system after a warning has been given.

>What I would like to start with is change the KISS interface to SLIP and put
>ARP in the TNC.  Then, we can figure out something to do with AX.25 packets,
>either send them to the host on a UDP port, or maybe a Telnet session or some-
>thing like that.  Eventually, I would like to have the TNC able to do routing;
>instead of having a node stack of NET/ROM TNCs, have a node stack of IP-TNC's.
>My goal is to have an IP-TNC that can connect to a host machine via SLIP or
>PPP.  That is it--no AX.25 to mess with (leave that to the IP-TNC).

>I am thinking of using the wg7jkiss.asm code (found in /pub/ham/wg7j/kiss.zip
>on ftp.ece.orst.edu) which can be compiled with tasm276, found on
>oak.oakland.edu (or any of its mirrors) in /pub/msdos/crossasm/tasm276.zip.
>I figure that most people are using DOS, and those who run Linux, as I do, can
>use DOSEMU.
No comment on DOS,as mc68k(tm)/sparc(tm) user,there is a free cross-assembler
for z80(tm) intended for UNIX(tm) based machines that I fished out of one of the
mirror sites I think it was called z80emu.tar.Z there was also a diss-assembler.

>Also, on the note of a packet switch, I think that a processor such as a 80x86
>would be a poor idea.  There are better proccessors out there, and many of them
>have FREE assemblers and C compilers.  Motorola makes a number of versions of
>their 68000 series.  David Kelly suggested the MC68306.  It has a 68EC000 core
>processor (which is a low-power version of the 68000), has a dual UART, and an
>onboard DRAM controller that can control up to 64 megabytes of memory.  There
>are a number of FREE C compilers for this processor, including GNU C.  Also,
>the Linux operating system has been ported to this series of processors, so
>that would provide a nice, pre-emptive multitasking kernel *WITH TCP/IP*!!

Well the Germans are working on 2 tnc's to replace the current ...one based upon
a MC68302 (why not the MC68360 chap's) and one on the V25 imbedded processor
which derives from the iAXP80x6 family...

Locally,Robin Gilks g8ecj@gb7mhd.#22.GBR.EU (or 44.131.6.158 if you can access
44.64 or 44.68 gateways to uk) has altered his software in a design of
commercial 4 channel 64k/b telecom routers that he designed some years back and
are now becoming obsolete (ISDN etc..) which are based upon a hd64180(tm)
processor which is basically a z80 with 3 or 4 extra instructions,but has the
addition of 2 on-board serial ports and memory manager.He currently uses slip
from his personal computer and the router talks to unmodified baycom(or some
may remember them as digicom for the C64's ) boards to the radio's.
Since the board is very lightly loaded at 1200 baud (about 3% of the real-time
os process) the group are looking at finding suitable interfaces and radios
to operate at higher rates..since the current expenditure is less than about
250 dollars the lot including radios! we think this is the way to go...
keep a look out on what commercial networks are throwing away in your area.
Paul Taylor
UK ampernet co-ordinator
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 10:09:21 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Eduardo Millar C.)
Subject: Looking for TCP/IP software for packet radio
To: [e-mail]

Hello:
      I am looking for different software alternatives for TCP/IP for
packet radio.
      If you have information, please send me a mail to:

      [e-mail]


      Thanks in advance

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plaza Windows.
Eduardo Millar C                        email: [e-mail]
Jorge Diaz                              email: [e-mail]

Proyecto Enlaces        Universidad de La Frontera    Temuco - Chile
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Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 08:13:06
From: "Marino, John" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Unsubscribe
To: [e-mail]


    unsub [e-mail] [e-mail]

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End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #126
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